A Response to Steve Camp (former christian artist) and other patronizing complimentarians out there that associate and align with this man’s ideologies.

Including the SBC & SGM associated churches and their celebrities that had and have their $trategic influence within so many local churches through years of “conferences” that pastors I knew at one point rarely missed before the Mahaney “scandal”. Some of which still attend these ra ra “Je$u$” festivals where I dare say the authentic spirit of Christ may rarely be present based on the fruit of many of these local pastor “ministry” experiences and encounters with their congregations between junket conferences.

“Do you feel their pain” is a reference to one of Steve Camp’s old and at one time, beautiful songs.

@PastorSJCamp as I read your responses and posture toward several women who were simply raising questions regarding the leadership role of husbands in the home, I as a husband of 24 years (and presumably and evidentially many others) take significant issue with your careless arrogance and smug virtue posturing.

As a new believer at one point some of your music was very formative for me. But not so much anymore having had the benefit of observing the words that escape your heart and betray your mind, much like Roseanne I would add. Evidently & thankfully there wasn’t any opportunity for me to have had to listen to some of your “biblical rhetoric” from any stage beyond the music on cassettes during those younger years if you have always been this pejorative regarding staunch nonegalitarian authoritarianism.

Although unfortunately as a man, the arrogance of patriarchal pastoral leadership did not leave me – and many others – unscarred. However these are scars I am grateful to the Lord for to be able to have my faith intact stronger than ever to face men – and oddly enough women – like you in all walks of life and all arenas and teach my children both male and female to do the same. I’ve come across and run into your types in churches for 3 decades.

I’m no scholar but you remind me of Paul’s posturing when he was listing his many achievements as one who, if anyone was counting achievements as justified atonement, would have been at the top of the heap of the qualified religious practitioners of his day. “A Hebrew among Hebrews” & “regarding the law, a Pharisee” of Pharisees- Philippians 3:4-8 . Yet in 21st century evangelicalism, legalistic literalism that leaves no room for cultural context or evolved – yes an “unbiblical” term you can go back to your buddies to gossip and commiserate over- psychological understanding of the human makeup and experience has produced more than ever before a breed of modern day Pharisees who, as men often in church leadership roles, neglect to consider that all such accolades that Paul listed were ultimately given the final assessment of being nothing but a pile of “dung” by Paul himself. You… not so much, evidently you are still “Camp”d on your self made credentials like many you follow and associate with within SBC and many within modern evangelical celebrity cult(ure).

With regard to your question around what to do with 1 Timothy 2:8-13, you may have smugly presumed to have left many speechless as other men I’ve come across. I know the MO because I’ve met and listened to nonegalitarians masquerading as patronizing complimentarians for years even written about some of their arrogance toward women. But I would like to submit to you the following well written pieces that considers the scenario around the text patriarchal men so like to wave around in women’s faces.
As an apparent student of ALL views I would imagine you may have already read this piece and become familiar with it.

Gender Wars at Ephesus by CBE-

“Nothing in these verses suggests a trans-occasional application of the command to women not to teach or to be silent. Nor is there any requirement that the women at Ephesus or anywhere else submit to men; rather they must submit to the teaching of qualified and authorized officials within the church. The universal principle is that failure to listen to the word of God renders a person more open to the deceits perpetuated by false teachers. All of us must always submit to the word of God, or else we are susceptible to false teachers and are in danger of falling away.”

Or A Historian Looks at a 1 Timothy 2:11-14

Beyond these extensive reviews of these apparent favourite verses of yours used to goad and test women with, – and as a person of color – I also submit to you that as an apparent “biblical literalist” with no shame or room for compromise regarding the spirit of the truth behind a matter would it not be appropriate to encourage a “biblical” resurgence and return to the practice of the acquisition of “slaves” for you and your nonegalitarian authoritarian patriarchists?

In essence that appears to be your position with regard to the place you believe a woman holds, under perverse nonegalitarian or the possibly more palatable and less controversial – to those who hold to it – patronizing complementarian church leadership. It would seem by your stated views and posture that women are objects of male “headship” leadership – irrelevant of abusiveness or maturity or lack thereof – not much more than objects and a few “complementarian” notches above the stature of second class citizens or slaves dare I say. I know, I know “those are not my words” you say but have you stopped at all in the last 10 years or even 5 years to hear what or how your insults and denigrating words and “biblical world view” may make women feel, maybe even your current wife?

Actually from my own experience, extreme neo-Calvinist and elite reformist “conservatism” supposedly have no room or category for their own feelings that apparently have no bearing on being a faithful disciple of Christ let alone give any thought to anyone else’s feelings. Ya right, like that’s true behind closed doors, yet it’s a perfect “doctrinal” position to hold over a congregation that seeks to minimize then manage their “felt” intuitions about hidden abuses and blatant hypocrisy.

For the record I would imagine @sheilagregoire or @defendthesheep and many others for that matter would love to hear from YOUR wife regarding what it’s really like to be in “submission” to your “leadership”.

Surely you remember Jesus standing in front of and having to defend women over and over again from men that seem, I repeat seem to resemble your views? “This woman was caught in…. ________.” (you fill in your blank, might I suggest from your repertoire- being easily deceived & holding to sinful independence. Doesn’t that sound absurd when “applied”?)

It is truly appalling that you would even be so smug as to not only hold these views but actually wave them around like a misguided matador or better yet a pompously proud ……………rodeo clown.

The unfortunate things is I and many other know far too many pastors and their rodeo clown “head of the home” followers who hold these ridiculous ideologies and harbingers of behind the scenes abuse wrapped in pretty bows of pristine religious piety while more often than not women and children suffer in the culpable silence of others who love their proximity to favoured status, perceived power and promised position more than they care about justice for the vulnerable and abused. A heart wrenching reality that consumed Jesus’ primary focus even up to and including His ultimate act on the cross.

You would think that someone who has been through what has been stated as a very painful and difficult divorce and wrote a song about it would have grown in profound waves of grace and empathy with the heart of the Saviour you claim to love. Yet for some reason such characteristics of a well seasoned soul – at your age- seems to escape you to such pitiful detriment.

I only carefully go here because of how you have attempted to utterly humiliate then denigrated (exactly like “pastors” many of us thought we knew) some amazing and powerfully wise and positively influencial women of our day in your smug quid pro quo twit (er) feeds, but as you get quite personal with women online who are almost complete strangers to you, is it possible that some of these views and YOUR “leadership” model could have been the straw that broke the camels back in your first marriage and subsequent DIVORCE? Only you know what truly took place. And further to that as a “biblical literalist” is it also not true that you actually have no business functioning as a pastor of a church giving counsel to anyone having not evidently managed your household well followed by not being the husband of “one” wife? Or wait maybe Paul was just referencing polygamy, which would be perfect and convenient for you I would think then. Yes despite such “hypocrisy” by your own standards, you remain in “ministry” pastoring and overseeing the lives of your fans and you gladly assume and take up that role and “calling”.

It is somewhat ironic that a man that claims to be as studied as you seem to be would not see your clever little SM tests, ploys and games that you clearly admit to (once again, just like the so called “pastors” many of us thought we knew), as being no different than the ploys and test of the ultra elitist Pharisees who on several occasions would “bait” Jesus as you claim to have successfully “baited” women into your little smug “tests”, scheme or traps. I would imagine as one who “loves that same Jesus” in those very real historical events would at least feign from ever being so proud of carrying out similar bait and test manipulative behaviours played out by the Pharisees of His day in vain attempts to entrap Him.

Unfortunately Steve Camp you are right on que just as the Pharisees, setting up “clever” traps and “baiting” and luring women taking advantage of trust as though that is some sort of blood sport and a virtue to be sought after.

You appear to unknowingly be on the wrong side, just like the Pharisees, of what you foolishly believe is some sort of noble biblical practice…… cleverly premeditated deceit. The very thing you claim and charge the Bible warns that women are more vulnerable to.

Shameful and almost predatory like, all while claiming to be a disciple of Christ.

Matthew 22:15-18
John 8:4-8

Steve, despite your antiquated – which does not equate to biblical- views, I and many others appreciated how much you contributed to the church culture so many years ago with regard to some of your music specifically, even though your views may not have been clearly discerned through your music, many – and I – are praying for you and your current wife and family that His grace to you would extend far beyond the grace you seem to exude for women who dare challenge you and your little kingdom that could be so much more graciously influential if you only tore down all these proud idols to your own misguided “headship” and dangerous doctrinal teaching that you seem to be spreading around, putting women and children in harms way of potentially abusive men who require if not demand submissiveness based on such misguided “church doctrines”.

I’ve seen it in my 30 some years and these patriarchal doctrines have the potential of setting back and harming lives for years followed by years of recovery of which God had or has absolutely NO “sovereign” part to do with whatsoever. Rather only the errors of the corrupt and deceptive false teachings of prideful men continue to carry out and cause so much disillusioning damage in families and Christians alike that bear the full brunt of the blame as He waits outside the doors of what often is no longer His church to carry the injured and maimed to find real healing, recovery and renewed strength to stand tall again and face men like you.

Simply pay attention Steve to what is happening to “the church” around you and the endless stories that are making their way out of the many dark corners of christendom into the light. It is unprecedented.

PS Please consider actually reading those links above.