This is not a review of the book Shepherding A Child’s Heart (SACH) by Ted Tripp, there are many excellent reviews available which I share later that lay out the concerns we have from our experience with this material years ago through the same pastor and his now defunct former church.

This is more about the promotion of the views in this particular “parenting resource” from an individual who has limited education around such a delicate subject to be teaching it and more so teaching these blanket concepts after being very aware of it having harmful outcomes years ago. Without consideration as to the many ways it WILL NOT and SHOULD NOT apply to many children – if any – nor the many ways listeners – not to mention himself if he actually practices what he teaches – may attempt to interpret and put these words and concepts “into practice” in the confines of the home meant to be a safe haven for our children to simply be and safely grow and mature. The education eluded to in this “sermon” was attending an unaccredited “pastors college” in Washington DC, correction, Gaithersburg Maryland the name of which is often left unstated for good reason, of which we and others were their first guinea pigs in 1998. A religious fundamentalist “college” that has produced many patriarchal church leaders proven to have brought about documented harm through “gospel centered” authoritarianism in many churches they lead and often affiliated with the “pastors colleges’ ” overseeing ministry body I introduce later. Although the college still exists some of the affiliations from years back were broken due to very public scandals explained later. However breaking affiliation did not equate to breaking from the leadership indoctrinations many picked up from the “pastors college”. If the crux of what was learned is to project that what makes a “good or effective godly parent” boils down to simply having a pastor corner a child and your child saying to him of you as parents “they are passionate about Jesus” for the monumental task of raising children, that’s much like viewing the murky waters of a vast river that spans a half a mile only to discover that once you step foot in it and cross you find it’s only half an inch deep across the entire expanse despite impressive appearances and is incapable of taking anyone anywhere they would want to go.

As the cry will likely be made of “taking what I said out of context” by those in the industry or this newly minted Midtown Church pastor Pat Sczebel formerly of Crossway Church & SGM Churches and his business partner Norm Funk formerly of Westside Church Vancouver before leaving unceremoniously (both with significant baggage of malignment toward dissenters, abuse of authority and manipulative conduct behind them that they wish to stay there), I will include the link here. From which these ridiculous “teaching sermon” quotes and regurgitations of a failed doctrinal past below are derived. But consider that even by simply making the first statement alone quoted below, it is sufficient information to hopefully not require ANY further supposed context in recognizing harm and error. Some of which we and others regrettably put our children through years ago for a brief time.

Not only are they now “teaching” manipulative “truths” but it is very clear from the language of the pulpit that the “doctrines” they push as “gospel centered” are intended (whether they are cognizant or not because most of evangelicalism is now rife with this accepted language) to break down any sense of self awareness, GOD given critical intuition and personal GOD given dignity. Which when obediently followed is hailed and touted as being spiritual dependent on Christ. While only perfectly serving to create a following of rarely questioning (lest you are labeled as prideful, disobedient and unsubmissive) codependent, compliant, “sacrificial” (a highly promoted thus sought after spiritual trait) minions, volunteers and, most importantly, GIVERS!! Even though they have left churches behind after, in essence, being forced out, churches such as Westside Church and now Midtown Church are notorious for this pulpit language. Norm himself will recognize the possibility of how something he may be saying could be considered a conflict of interest primarily around money, in his next breath after acknowledging that likelihood, simply dismisses that concern and moves on with the goal of making light of it and a non-issue to the congregation. Seems to work every time.

Direct Quotes from the sermon link:- It is very difficult to not want to break down so much of what is quoted below statement by statement, except to say it is critical to read between the lines as one in the “audience” to truly understand all the damaging projections being proposed and presented as irrefutable “truth”. And don’t get me started on the ridiculous “appeal” process for the child to then be adjudicated like they’re in some kangaroo court proceeding made to look like mature, “godly”, age appropriate parenting from a pastor.

-“The word to the children is obey your parents… Which means to listen with attentiveness and to respond positively what’s heard…. The command here is to obedience, obedience in doing what you’re told… As a child you are under the authority of your parents and this is God’s perfect will and plan for your life. You cannot do what you like rather you are called to do what your parents think is best…. That’s scriptural right there.”…

-“Children are to obey without challenge, without excuse and without delay. Wouldn’t that be amazing if you had a child that never challenged you, that never had an excuse in obeying you?”…

-“Now let me interject here also to parents for a moment. Listen, if you accept anything less than obedience from your child without challenge, excuse and delay, listen, this is a hard one parents, but you are being disobedient to the Lord himself who’s called you to train them.”…

“You don’t say on the count of 5 you better go and do this. We need to sit down and this is a “gospel moment” and say ‘Son or daughter, when I ask you to do that, I need you to respond immediately because that’s pleasing to Jesus’. “

” Am I saying you should never be able to appeal when you’re unsure about something as a child? Absolutely not, you’re not a machine, you have ideas, thoughts about certain things in which you should be able to appeal out of respect to your parents, but though flawed and sinful, what a child needs to understand is God has given his parents / her parents as a gift from God for their good. Your parents, if you’re listening to me this morning, is a gift from God for your good.”…

-“Obedience is not just an action but it’s about the attitude behind that obedience.”

-“Listen, children, when our obedience is done with the right attitude, we’re honouring our parents and we’re honouring God.” – Pat Sczebel

It has been years since we extricated ourselves and our children from these types of harmful teaching environments.

Yet still it continues on a new generation not only due to the very insular way in which these views are shared in “teaching sermons” such as this (and in so many other churches) quietly, and far from any possibility of public scrutiny but primarily because of the lack of clear child developmental education and understanding. Add to that the lack of real studied outside influence rarely found in reformed and or evangelical circles beyond old regurgitated, repetitive church language that rarely can actually be defined (christianese), shallow understanding, false narratives buried in truisms along with humility platitudes. Then further add the wilfully stubborn, prideful (as they label/”teach” from their pulpits of others who dare confront them) refusal to consider the harm and the potential culture of abuse they are inflicting on children from these so called “parenting” models in raising children for “the glory of God”, and you more easily end up with an environment ripe for abuse.

As one raised – and erratically beaten and demeaned – in such toxic unaccountable, authoritarian environments of unpredictable outcomes and with my wife being in the early childhood education field, we began undoing (thankfully and hopefully early enough) much of what we concluded were views that were more about ourselves as parents than “God’s glory”. The practice of which we convince ourselves of, because it was praised and gave us a sense of accomplishment and “status” within those groups about what we believed we were doing for “the glory of God”. When in fact it is mostly for ourselves, parading our – hopefully – “obedient” children before a “watching world” – as is often stated – and, more importantly, one another. Which then, with any noticed measure of perceived success, served to only validate the “teachings” of the church and its lauded leaders triggering the 4 P’s cycle of evangelicalism, “preaching” and “practice” followed by “pastoral praise”. A culture very much supported by how the pastors perceived and portrayed other children and the effects of other children on their children, resulting in adolescent (youth group) elitism, shunning, exclusivity and bullying toward those their parents deemed as poor examples and influences within their own church. And we all know where fundamentalist adolescent children of pastors and their inner circle enabling members, given that power do with it. This is not fabricated information but information well known and experienced by many years ago, that (our) SGM pastors were wilfully impervious to acknowledging or addressing in their “godly children” at that time. A very real approval based subculture that praised and favoured those who carried out and “practiced” what was being taught – projected – by church leaders while simultaneously isolating and marginalizing families with very real challenges not acknowledged or recognize in such hive and contrived followerships that openly taught against professional therapeutic and or psychological realities, despite all the statements or examples to the contrary made at the end of this “teaching sermon”, as children can easily emulate a facade of obedience with few or no one asking the deeper internal question as to how they got there.

It is hard to fathom this material from Tedd Tripp’s book “Shepherding A Child’s Heart” is still being propagated and encouraged as a model for healthy parenting and appropriate treatment and expectations of children so many years later after witnessing so many examples of how it went very wrong. Which speaks to the efforts made in having no new insight, expanded understanding or nothing to go on other than drawing from material from almost 2 decades ago. Material long since deemed as extra-biblical (outside the known teaching of the Bible) and harmful, much like an updated version of the abusive and damaging Bill Gothard approach to child rearing from decades ago or the Purity cultures “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” now renounced by its author Joshua Harris. Who “coincidentally” was heavily involved and indoctrinated in the SGM culture later described, of which this Midtown church leader was also heavily steeped in and still appears to maintain “mutually beneficial” “gospel” ties with.

I vividly recall when this material and concept was being introduced to my wife and I (and others) at a homeschool meeting held by the disgraced and overthrown (there were no hero’s in their church leadership infighting & financially corrupt fiasco which is another story altogether) Tony Walsh (now “lead pastor” at Grace Community Church Denver CO). As corporal punishment – usually disguised as “consequence” whenever discussed – was being introduced and encouraged as a “means of grace” for our children through discipline. One of my direct questions to Tony, being a young father myself was “If we were to be questioned by any authority about “spanking” and it’s encouraged practice at Crossway, would he be there to defend us as parents and the views or position we hold at Crossway?” His answer was” Yes”, a response I found disingenuous at best and an outright falsehood at worst. As it turns out they ALL are full of it if they dare make such claims to anyone they are teaching this to. They would NEVER take on such responsibility with or for you, and I would surmise from first hand experience they give themselves far more “grace” than what is being taught to their “hearers” lest they find themselves under scrutiny especially within the (real world authorities) subsidized foster system Pat Sczebel benefits from with multiple children that their “biblical approach” is more damaging than transforming, so be careful.

We do need to have age appropriate expectations for our growing kids, but not this, not this by any stretch of the imagination nor something so onerous as to impose church “leadership” based subjective views on what “honouring God and honouring your parents” ought to look like void of the hard work of understanding child developmental education and that children are co or equal citizens with equal value and shared citizenship. Full humans worthy of respect, engagement, discussion, dignity and full participation in smaller bodies.

This book and its authoritarian views were first introduced to us (much like many other very questionable horrendous books such as ‘The Fruit of Her Hands’) and to this pastor at the now defunct former Langley church called Crossway Church by a now fringe American group of churches collectively called Sovereign Grace Churches Ministries renamed due to their abuses and public scandal. A group “overseeing” church once headquartered from Covenant Life Church in Gaithersburg known to have encouraged concealing criminal child sexual abuse and many other abuses within their group of – franchise – churches. A group that took the proliferated posture proposed in this sermon of teaching that when asked ‘the better question’ of “will you forgive me” rather than “I’m sorry”, it demands a response. Thereby introducing the possibility of using such tactics to “biblically” impose upon children to face their abuser family member or church member, now “asking for forgiveness” which – by reasonable deduction and typical evangelical logic – “demands a response” of “yes I forgive you, HOW CAN I NOT in light of all God has forgiven me of” from a helpless, innocent minor. Thereby exonerating the perpetrator of the – now confused – child and often times wife’s abuse while revictimizing all involved, including members in the know who “dared” to question – make believe – “authority”. Pastors so compromised in their position they either had little to no self awareness or didn’t care about the immense mental health challenges they were perpetrating and creating in the church beyond ensuring that the “sacrificial” – “especially when it hurt” – tithe was coming into the church and that due to their love for the “flock of God” no one find themselves in the position of “robbing God” outlined in Malachi. Yet at that point teaching and facilitating having possible child victims forgive their “repentant” abusers, the “pastors” are pleased with themselves and the outcome, deluding themselves that they have “done church right for the glory of God” by dealing with serious matters in-house and “biblically”. Tragic!

BTW as I noted above, the term “helpless innocent minor” is a statement that is not accepted in these groups considering the consistent narrative is we are all “utterly depraved” and the “worst of sinners” if we choose to be honest with ourselves as “fallen sinners” and nothing about us, including children, is or can be “biblically” categorized as “innocent”. This false and manipulative narrative is slightly eluded to even here with Pat having a potential battle with the Apostle Paul as to who would actually be “the worst sinner”. A staggering demonstration of humility truly worthy of commendation? – Not at all. That is a whole other discussion with regard to the true state of what these groups believe and regularly indoctrinate and project to their often codependent paying followers around the topic of ensuring the denigration and evisceration of self, self evaluation, self esteem, self worth and personal dignity. Thus ensuring self doubt, the key required for codependency, manipulative control and ironically self-serving agendas.

The fact of the matter is the simple list I just made having the term “self” as the descriptor almost literally makes these groups cringe because having been well trained and steeped within that narrative, they can’t imagine anything to do with “self” care being valid, “good” or fitting the “gospel centered” narrative they (presume to) live by or anything that does not give deference to “Jesus” or “God” literally first, all while practicing and blind to some of the most self absorbed narratives and “teaching” for the sole purpose of self preserving personal gain, the true heart of a Pharisee. As noble as that may appear, it is significantly dysfunctional and leads to self loathing, naval gazing and an unhealthy preoccupation with the minutiae of “finding and killing indwelling sins” in every corner of ones life. At least that’s the lofty goal, but one look at what has transpired in any one of their past and evangelicalism as a whole, it would be clear that such sentiments are mere lip service at the gospel corporate top for the sole purpose of good business impression management (credit – Wade Mullen) practice, while the unseen in the trenches who “sacrifice” as instructed and not in their pockets or active sycophants are the ones truly living it out honestly and openly. As mentioned, that is a whole other discussion to consider in these types of evangelical groups that we know well.

The challenge that we had with much of this “teaching” (more accurately described as projection or projected outcomes) from the same individual speaking who taught this 15 to 20 years ago is that it was and evidently still is completely divorced from any coalescing views or options to learn from outside child development educators, christian or not, who ACTUALLY understand the processes of child development. Rather you are stuck with these insular, uninformed “biblical parenting” views that left unchecked, can create a hostile environment of unreasonable expectation, and bring about frustration and mental health challenges in the home when children rightfully begin to exercise their independence and appropriately push back at subjective and unmeasurable attempts to mysteriously “honour God” in ways that evidently only parents or pastors “know” and deem appropriate yet aligns with the child being obedient and or compliant and dare I say… convenient and easier to parent as they “do what they are told” while also “glorifying God”. By discouraging outside educational considerations to this complex task of raising our children in what WE CAN know for OURSELVES while still being faithful to our beliefs, these men and types of churches set THEMSELVES up as the only (trust us) source for truth, real christian learning, “counsel” and approved “gospel centered” reading. A recipe for disaster we’ve seen over and over.

For consideration… (even when the reasoning is to “honour God” not mindless compliance)
“Obedience & Compliance
Not only are instant obedience and mindless compliance poor goals for raising children, they are poor goals in a school, a marriage or a workplace if you want to encourage participation, innovation, cooperation, creativity and a sense of joy.

‘Because I said so’ is hardly the template of relationship we want to instil in our children. It is firmly rooted in the power dynamic of Domination from which arises all abuse and family violence. One day our children will become spouses, parents, teachers, colleagues, ERO officers … and they will need more effective relationship skills than “because I said so” or “you must or I’ll hurt you”. They will learn effective relationship skills from us, from the way we treat them when they are children.” – Penny A Brownlee

An alternate or additional resource that might be considered to bring outside insight or balance is Dr. Vanessa LaPointe’s books, Discipline Without Damage & Parenting Right From The Start. Which can be obtained here.

It is possible to honour God in our parenting while taking in psychologically educated views for a healthy balance that will help us as parents form critical long term empathic connections with our children and keep them from understandably despising or wanting to have nothing to do with “faith”, God (as they’ve come to know Him through these harmful confined cultures), or sometimes us as parents when they come of age at times ending up with strained relationships. We know and we’ve seen it happen several times over, while in, and after leaving the culture.

To address the issue of being qualified to “teach” this subject noted at the start of this “message”. Simply because one claims to have 8 children – 4 birth and 4 revolving fostered – does not make one an expert on the topic of parenting especially when these limited religious methods are considered as the only qualified means to parenting. Much the same can be said of our parenting, the only difference is we’ve been in and been open to BOTH camps and saw first hand the harm and abuses in what is being put forward in this “teaching”. For this or most church leaders to also attempt to “try” both methods would equate to relinquishing control and releasing their congregation to freely study on their own what they (as autonomous family members, hold on, isn’t that what we are to begin with by God’s design?) feel is best for them. At that point – with the degree of insecurity in this business – where would the value of being a “teaching” pastor possibly end up? This may bring some understanding and light to Big Eva, and how or why the business of church and its players postulate as being the only ones “qualified” to decipher the “truths of the Bible” makes for good job security and why dissent or independent thought outside the hive puts the colony at risk.

Discovering how harmful this material was to our children (and children we witnessed in that same environment) when we were “in the fold” was paramount for us as parents at the time.

What I now find difficult is the utter self serving tone deafness in “teaching” these types of “doctrinal” ultra right wing views at a time where so much harm to children has been recently revealed while absolutely not making one mention of the Residential School horrors made known on Thursday before this Sunday May 30th “message”. The question is why was that story omitted when it is very relevant to the topic of children and what an abusive insular culture can look like? Back then when we attended Crossway and still in place and strongly encouraged today was the practice of discouraging active engagement in what may be happening in the news and especially social media. So maybe that explains why they would consider it appropriate to teach this topic while making no mention of the atrocities committed against the, so far, 215 children of the Kamloops Residential School.

Of the 5 or so churches I regularly listen to last week, not one made mention of the atrocities noted in the religious based Kamloops Residential School. Maybe they all didn’t happen to have heard the news yet days before or noticed the event in ever corner of social media. Unfortunately from years of experience in “meetings” and exposure to these cult(ures) I find a more strategic untoward reasoning would be involved for such dismissal and omission of such critical information.

With much of what was said in this “sermon” there is SO MUCH wrong here it’s hard to know where to stop. A book can be written about the culture described and proposed in this sermon alone.

Some additional quotes or resources to consider in collaboration with YOUR OWN conclusions on biblically parenting your children:

“Connection allows for discipline without damage, and responsibility for connection is the big person’s to own.” “To discipline without damage, big people must escape the vortex. And to escape the vortex, big people must stop using the disconnect as a disciplinary technique.”…

“This is why children do not “learn” to calm or self-regulate. Children become capable of calming and self-regulation through consistent experiences of having been calmed by their caring adults. These calming experiences physically transform the brain’s stress response center and pave the way neurologically for the capacity of self-regulation.” – Vanessa Lapointe

“The unfortunate thing is that many parents, in the name of faithful discipline, do not understand the differences between babies or toddlers or young children or even teens with all of their hormones, and they exhibit anger and harshness toward their children, act in a demeaning way, while neglecting the cues of the child at each stage. These parents have no perspective for the children themselves–they use a rule and formula no matter what–and often wonder why their children do not respond to them.” – Sally Clarkson

Speaking of Psychology: Disciplining children effectively

To close out this list, here is a source rarely considered in religious circles that I came across through my wife. A document that is extremely insightful far beyond claims heard or made in this sermon. –

United Nations Human Rights – Convention on the Rights of The Child

And an excellent point by point review of SACH from Anne Sokol here who is outside the favoured, often preferred fundamentalist symbiotic sausage factory TGC review house.

Though not directly related to raising children but to evangelical cult(ures) of manipulative control, another consideration when regularly dissuaded from open discussion and faced with a consistent culture of suppression of truth (strategically deceptive misleading NDA’s) and an unwillingness to be open, honest and transparent (often encouraged in New Testament teaching they claim to live by) about ANYTHING. As we faced with this member of the former Crossway Church “leadership team” : – “One of the really hard-won lessons I learned is that in an abusive organization, a reasonable answer is often given as a pretext to hide an unethical posture.” @ReasonsForGod speaking of @RZIMhq, which he says continues to operate in secrecy & half-truths

What’s Really Happening At RZIM?